Possible Hotel and Casino - HARP

[DMad]

I would appreciate thoughts and feedback to the hotel and casino proposal currently facing the city of Pueblo as described in the below article. As a fan of gambling, I can see on the surface where this would be an attractive venture for a citizen such as myself and would probably benefit the Pueblo economy to a high degree, as well. But, as Dan Corsentino points out in the article, if the addition of a casion was a complete win-win, then why the resistance from Governor Bill Owens to an identical project near DIA? Anyone...???


As posted in the Pueblo Chieftain, Monday, August 22nd, 2005:

"A number of community leaders surveyed Sunday by The Pueblo Chieftain said they want more information before supporting or opposing a casino-hotel project at the Historic Arkansas Riverwalk of Pueblo. American Indian tribes this past weekend announced their intentions to build a $100 million hotel-casino in Downtown Pueblo. The site they prefer is at the east end of HARP, at the location of the former Andrews Produce. The impoverished Oklahoma tribes of the Cheyenne-Arapahoe have partnered with the Denver-based Council Tree Communications to approach Pueblo officials about they plan. Like other tribes, the Cheyenne-Arapahoe - whom history knows as the victims of the Sand Creek Massacre, near Lamar - are trying to make a better life for their people. Pueblo, for a couple of months, has been of great interest to the development partners. For more than a year, the tribes and Council Tree have been working to build a casino near Denver International Airport. The proposal, however, has met resistance by Gov. Bill Owens, stating he's against more casinos in Colorado. The opportunity to boost economic development, add hundreds of jobs and improve on Pueblo's tourism appeal piques the interest of many Puebloans and local officials. But the idea is still new, and many are waiting for more details to land before elbowing up to the card table. City Councilman Ray Aguilera said Sunday that building the casino "certainly has a great deal of appeal, but we are going to have to really take a good look at what it will do to everything else. We need to look at what all it presents." The development partners won't officially meet with City Council until the council's Aug. 29 meeting. Aguilera also noted that the state and federal government also must approve the plan. "We have to get the permission of a lot of people," he said, adding: "I'm sure the people up in Cripple Creek aren't going to be too happy." There currently is limited-stakes (maximum bet: $5) gambling in Cripple Creek, Blackhawk and Central City. There also is an American Indian casino near Ignacio and one south of Cortez. Adding a casino to Pueblo, especially along HARP and the allure of the the Union Avenue Historic District is "what we've always needed," Aguilera said. Councilman Jeff Chostner preferred to save his opinion until further information is released. Chostner said he's concerned about the future relationship between Pueblo and the American Indian tribes, being that the land the casino's built on would have to be declared reservation status. "I would like to scrutinize the legal relationship between the tribes and City of Pueblo," Chostner said. "My concern is, are you dealing with a sovereign nation?" Chostner provided this example: "It would be like having France or Germany move in on HARP. It would be two different countries. My concern is protecting Pueblo and its city." Phone calls to other city councilmen were not returned Sunday."

[Hell To Pay]

How. Pueblo Tribal Council heapem big against entertaintment industry. Can no smokem peace pipe in casino. Too many white-man trucks on road to casino. Tribe get drunk and scalp each other.

[Zombiewire]

Hey it will bring more work to Pueblo like organized crime, prostitution rings. even hire more cops. I guess the young hoods ( gang bangers) now will have somebody to work for. Instead of jumping out of cars a beating people randomly; they now will have a list of people to make pay off their gambling habits.
Just send Franky and Geno over there and have them talk to Vinnie to drop the package. Baa ding bada doo

Sure the rich will make a killing off this deal WHEN it goes through but the poor will get poorer because they will try and make their fortune after they get their paycheck on Friday.

ah forget about it


GESH I THOUGHT HE WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE HE LIKES THE Carleo Way
Who would not want the Carleo Way if they had property right there where the "proposed" RRRRR I MEAN where the CASINO WILL GO? Why play the game that they need the people of Pueblo to vote on this. This casino will open like it or not and mark my words.




wednesday 24th news clip
According to the Pueblo County assessor's office, Tapia owns a building at 102 S. Oneida St., located right behind the empty Andrews Produce building, on the grounds where the $100-million casino complex is proposed.

[large]

At the present, I'm against it . . Why?

I've been in a lot of casinos in this country . . and with the exception of a couple, the "Reservation" Casinos tend to be almost "Holes". Sandia (Nice place, really!) in Albuquerque being one of the few exceptions, as well as the Mohican Sun back East, along with a couple others . . . the rest . . Dumps . .

Then there's the "Soveriegn Country" status of the Casinos . . There's already been several incidents of a visitor hitting a Progressive Slot Jackpot in a Reservation Casino and the Indian Owners refusing to pay off, for a veritable myriad of reasons . . In one instance, the Hilton Hotel chain, who was the apparent "Leasing Operator" paid the bill, although it wasn't obligated to. the Reservation, being a "Soveriegn Country" doesn't have to honor any laws of the surrounding State or Country. they can make theirs as they go . . .

I don't want to sound racist, but first of all I'm "Anti-Reparation" anything . . Past history, no matter the deed (or deeds) is dead and gone . . wherein some of my ancestors may have owned slaves or settled upon "Indian" lands they left me nothing more than a name . . thus, inheriting nothing, I owe nothing . .to anyone, and that's pretty much how it should be . . Therefore, The Citizens of Pueblo, the Citizens of Colorado, nor the United States as a whole, owe the Cheyenne/Arapahoe (inc.) a damned thing . . Not to mention that these same people who say "Great White Father speak with Forked Tongue" received a large ($15 Mil.) settlement in the late '60's from the Feds over their claim of 27 million acres, now they're coming back with the same claim . . first in the DIA deal and when they couldn't extort 500 acres from the Northern Colorado area, now they want to come to Pueblo for a handout . .

And IF . . they would do something for the tribe it might even be a plus . . but as we've seen in so many cases, it fails to educate or make the Native Americans it's supposed to help, better people . . they still don't graduate from high School, they still don't have jobs, they still live in a "Welfare Condition", with government assistance, housing, etc . . Don't take my word for it . . Go to Durango, or into north central New Mexico . . on a week end . . .

The last word is . . The "Indians" have "White Guys" . . lawyers at that, representing them . . Now no matter how honest the Tribal Council might be, we can't extend that confidence to their spokesman . . .

[declyn]

After reading several of the phone messages to "Tell it to the Chieftain", I felt that I needed to reply. Number one, one of the callers complained about the potential lack of parking and how every last parking space in downtown will be taken by the casino patrons. In one of the articles in the Chieftain where they printed an artists rendering of the casino site, it explained that at one end, tastefully behind a facade , would be a multi level parking garage. Number two, one caller was concerned that there would be casino patrons who would gamble away money that they should be using for day to day living expenses. Please...when are we going to stop treating adults like children. Each individual should be responsible for their own finances and it is not society's role to keep temptation out of the reach of other adults. As if we could! There are multiple sites on the Internet where a gambler can play poker and other games. The Rambling Express makes 10-12
round trips a day to Cripple Creek. So if someone wants to gamble, there are plenty of
opportunities. A casino/hotel complex on HARP will generate revenue (let's enhance the economy of Pueble, instead of Cripple Creek). HARP needs an "anchor store" just like a mall, in order to bring more people and therefore more businesses to HARP. So I ask all who read this to become informed as to the plan and progress of the casino project and make your decision whether to support or reject based on facts, not conjecture or emotion. This can be a "shot in the arm" for the economy of Pueblo.

[Zombiewire]

I noticed you did not mention the gangs to be hired and the hookers along with a new and improved police force. I have an idea whos payroll they will collect from. I guess you do not know what happen to the Netherlands. They had some problems so they allowed their moral system to decay by allowing sex for sell and then everything. Now they have a worse economy.
We all know what is involve in a gambling atmosphere. Sure let the adults be adults. Lots of people do not even own a computer to gamble online. You put that in their face everyday they will end up gambling and losing all their money and wham in jail, in the system. The family break down.
Oh and let people be faced with prostitution. yeah they are adults but why not shove sex in their face? How many will turn that down?
What will happen o the moral values of Pueblo. Pueblo has always been know a place to raise a family. You bring in the big circus act and see how many local will join up as rodes. Its all about the investment of the people who own property along the Harp project and the Indians from some where else however nothing about the basic 9 to 5 family. What is their incentive? Losing money and family? Me I would rather go to Vegas and lose some wages there instead and come home glad to be home until next year once I can save up again.
So take the excuses and ship them down the river.





After reading several of the phone messages to "Tell it to the Chieftain", I felt that I needed to reply. Number one,

BLA BLA BLA BLA

one of the callers complained about the potential lack on facts, not conjecture or emotion. This can be a "shot in the arm" for the economy of Pueblo.

[declyn]

Although not an avid gambler, my husband and I have visited several Indian gambling casinos over the years, in many places across the country and I have yet to have seen anything like you are describing. The people that I have encountered have been people like myself, middle cl**** middle aged who are looking for an opportunity for some enjoyment. I don't see gangs prowling the streets of Cripple Creek. We have never seen anyone been approached by a prostitute soliciting business in Cripple Creek, at the Indian casino in South Dakota or the Oneida Casino in Door County, Wisconsin. With the price of airline tickets nowadays, fewer and fewer people can afford air travel to Las Vegas and even if they could, I wonder if they want to spend their precious vacation time in a casino for 1-2 weeks, when an hour at a local casino would satisfy their desire. I am sorry that you have such little faith in the moral fiber of Pueblo, that solicitation from a prostitute would cause them to immediately melt and comply. And computers are all over, even the public library so I am sure that anyone who is interested in gambling on line can find a way. So to all but Zombiewire who has already made up his mind, please get all the necessary information before you make up your mind about the advisability of the casino on HARP.

[large]

Seems to have surprised the HARP people . . nothing like working with the locals . .

I'm thinking that the Casino people, and Louie, just decided to cram it down the throats of the city and to Hell with planning! As James has said, seemingly, the only people profoundly behind the Idea of an Indian owned Casino at the present are those who would profit almost immediately . . .

The Spokespeople(Lawyers) have said it isn't a local issue, it'll be settled in Washington, DC . . again, nothing like working with the locals . . and the Union Avenue merchants are buzzing . . let 'em ask the non gaming businesses in Cripple Creek or Central City just how well they do with the Casinos in full operation . . . not too well, because if people want to go to a tourist trap they will, but if the Casino is the destination . . that's where they stay!

In Vegas, the Casinos put stores IN the Casinos, further keeping those who come, there . . they ain't sharing nothing . . I just listened to the partner at Anderson upholstery . . on the TV news . . he's advocating the "More business" deal for the casino . . how many people are going to come to gamble in an Indian Casino . . and wander into the upholstery and fabric store . . and buy a rug . .or 8-10 yards of drapery material?

C'mon, get real!

I'm not going to go off the deep end here and predict gang wars and prostitution, but I am going to have to see some plans put forth and lots more information provided before I change my mind . . I cannot construe much of a Casino in my mind on just Five acres with the parking required, because they have to provide adequate parking for the guests. If it's much of a Casino, they'll need more than five acres just for the parking! Unless they go vertical!

[Zombiewire]

The new name of the Harp project is renamed the Pied Piper Project. I vote for Large for city manager!!







Seems to have surprised the HARP people . . nothing like working with the locals . .

I'm thinking that the Casino people, and Louie, just decided to cram it down the throats of the city and to Hell with planning! As James has said, seemingly, the only people profoundly behind the Idea of an Indian owned Casino at the present are those who would profit almost immediately . . .

The Spokespeople(Lawyers) have said it isn't a local issue, it'll be settled in Washington, DC . . again, nothing like working with the locals . . and the Union Avenue merchants are buzzing . . let 'em ask the non gaming businesses in Cripple Creek or Central City just how well they do with the Casinos in full operation . . . not too well, because if people want to go to a tourist trap they will, but if the Casino is the destination . . that's where they stay!

In Vegas, the Casinos put stores IN the Casinos, further keeping those who come, there . . they ain't sharing nothing . . I just listened to the partner at Anderson upholstery . . on the TV news . . he's advocating the "More business" deal for the casino . . how many people are going to come to gamble in an Indian Casino . . and wander into the upholstery and fabric store . . and buy a rug . .or 8-10 yards of drapery material?

C'mon, get real!

I'm not going to go off the deep end here and predict gang wars and prostitution, but I am going to have to see some plans put forth and lots more information provided before I change my mind . . I cannot construe much of a Casino in my mind on just Five acres with the parking required, because they have to provide adequate parking for the guests. If it's much of a Casino, they'll need more than five acres just for the parking! Unless they go vertical!

[large]

My wife will either divorce me or have me killed if I ever get into politics . . and I'd rather (be killed) . . .

There are times when I sit and wish for the return of "Filthy Fred" Weisbrod, City Manager during the 60's and 70's . . I suppose his ways couldn't stand the scrutiny that officials get now, but, I wish he were here . . when I was a planner, we were on the third floor of City Hall . . And you could smell Fred before you saw him . . that damned Cigar . . I usta smoke cigars . . and I never found any that smelled like that . . I think he marinated 'em in dog s--- . . but you always knew where you stood with Fred . . and you knew Fred had a handle on it if it had to do with Pueblo . . he probably had pictures of every businessman and council member in Pueblo with homely sheep or other compromising situations . .

If there was something (or somebody) that needed immediate attention, Fred would take 'em out to th' "Birdwatcher's" and have a couple of drinks with 'em on Wednesday night . . . whatever needed to be done, was done . .

He'd come in the office and say; "Get the so and so plans out and act on it, I have the money . . or I'll have it by the time you're ready to put it out to bid . . no consultants, no endless meetings, no quibbling in council . . it was a done deal!

The reason I recall this, is because . . if Fred were here now, I'd bet there would be a new round of the Indian/American wars . . and those locals who are standing to make bunches would migrate to the top of Fred's s--- List . . . someplace the politicians at the time didn't want to be!

[Zen Curmudgeon]

ZW thinks a casino will destroy the moral fiber of Our Fair City, and the Governor believes a WalMart distribution center is a better deal (memo to Bill: we were getting past all that - didja have to bring it up again?).

Not to cloud the issue with irrelevant facts, but ZW's new home town, San Diego, lacks a casino and yet, according to MSNBC, "...Mayor Dick Murphy resigned just seven months into his term amid a pension fund scandal that has left City Hall in shambles. Less than 72 hours later, his interim replacement lost the job when he was convicted of corruption for taking bribes from a strip club owner."

And let's not overlook Bill Owens' contribution to betting. As chief executive officer of the state, he is automatically the top decision authority for the Colorado Lottery. I can't say I've seen all that many guys on the onramps with "Will Work for Lottery Tickets" signs. :)

I don't know what might happen with the proposed casino, but I also don't know of any evidence that the Pueblo Greyhound Park has led to mass demolition of Pueblo families. Are there "bingo widows" we haven't heard about?

As Rob Quirk says, "stay tuned".

Take Care -

ZC

PS - While his wife may disagree, I think large would make a terrific city manager! The campaign slogan alone would be priceless: "Pueblo - Living Large Every Day" :)

[large]

Don't go there! heh, heh . . . .

[large]

Really, I don't think that it'll have much to do with the "moral fiber" of the city . . after all, Pueblo doesn't seem to have a "Sparkling Rep' with the surrounding cities . . not that that is any big deal . . that will change with time . .

But, that being said, a Casino, no matter how big and with or without "Limited Stakes" won't do the surrounding city much good as far as bringing money into Pueblo . . . nor jobs . . the majority of the employees would be non skilled and semi skilled labor so there isn't much to be said about the amount of pay . . and people who come to gamble, generally do just that . . they don't go shopping! And if there's bus service to the Casino, people won't even buy gasoline in Pueblo . .

Chances are the Casino's Sewage treatment and other support could end up costing the City of Pueblo more than they get out of it. We've seen the problems California has with just getting the Indian owned Casinos to pay the taxes they agreed to . . .

Once we give the Tribes Five Acres plus, and it becomes a "Soveriegn Country" . . how do you enforce any agreements they might abrogate? Call in the Army? Invade 'em? Again?

[Zombiewire]

Yeah San Diego city leaders are whacked! In Indians in San Diego county have about four casinos. The thing is they are on the reservations and not in the city limits. Those guys are RICH! The money doesn't help San Diego for the exception of employment.


ZW thinks a casino will destroy the moral fiber of Our Fair City, and the Governor believes a WalMart distribution center is a better deal (memo to Bill: we were getting past all that - didja have to bring it up again?).

Not to cloud the issue with irrelevant facts, but ZW's new home town, San Diego, lacks a casino and yet, according to MSNBC, "...Mayor Dick Murphy resigned just seven months into his term amid a pension fund scandal that has left City Hall in shambles. Less than 72 hours later, his interim replacement lost the job when he was convicted of corruption for taking bribes from a strip club owner."

And let's not overlook Bill Owens' contribution to betting. As chief executive officer of the state, he is automatically the top decision authority for the Colorado Lottery. I can't say I've seen all that many guys on the onramps with "Will Work for Lottery Tickets" signs. :)

I don't know what might happen with the proposed casino, but I also don't know of any evidence that the Pueblo Greyhound Park has led to mass demolition of Pueblo families. Are there "bingo widows" we haven't heard about?

As Rob Quirk says, "stay tuned".

Take Care -

ZC

PS - While his wife may disagree, I think large would make a terrific city manager! The campaign slogan alone would be priceless: "Pueblo - Living Large Every Day" :)

[Digger Dan]

Gaming in Pueblo needs serious consideration, but the denigration of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe is a diservice to them and to this forum. The spirit of reparation should originate in truth and play out with justice. A just individual makes mistakes, but is alwasys willing to try to overturn injustice with whatever form of reparation he or she can devise. It's not "payback", its the foundation of a just society. The fact that some acts of "reparation" are misguided and in some cases frought with injustice and corruption does not make the foundation wrong, it makes the individuals perpetrating the injustice and corruption wrong.
The ghosts of the Sand Creek Massacre are still among us--if you think not, read "Beyond the Sangres," by Wes Brewer

[Zombiewire]

I have thought further into the Casino proposal and would like to take some steps backward and go out on the limb to retract my previous statements. After reading the pros and cons concerning the impact of Pueblo if it gets the casino, I and neutral. Let it go to vote and let the people of Pueblo Colorado decide if they need that shoot in the arm. I love Pueblo and want what is best for the city.



Hey on www.pueblohometech.com I have installed a forum. Please sign in there just for the heck of it. Soon on there I will offer free Pizza from the Do Drop inn......

[Zombiewire]

I still need to fix that forum. www.pueblohometech.com

[Zombiewire]

Who will name the purposed casino and what will they name it?



www.pueblohometech.com

[Zen Curmudgeon]

As ZW points out, there's been no talk of a name for this facility. Assuming the deal does go through, we ought to be prepared for a christening process.

So, let's have a little contest to choose the best name for the gamble-plex. Submit as many as you like. No one will keep score, and the developers will probably never even hear about it (unless they have the good sense to read this forum), but that just makes this contest's rules about as transparent as, say, the Publisher's Clearinghouse, or the Christian Rapture (btw, after the Rapture, can I have your car?).

The winner gets the first pull on a slot machine - must provide your own quarter. :)

My suggestion for the Historic Arkansas Riverwalk Project casino: "Bucks and Ducks".

Take Care -

ZC

[large]

Gaming in Pueblo needs serious consideration, but the denigration of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe is a diservice to them and to this forum. The spirit of reparation should originate in truth and play out with justice. A just individual makes mistakes, but is alwasys willing to try to overturn injustice with whatever form of reparation he or she can devise. It's not "payback", its the foundation of a just society. The fact that some acts of "reparation" are misguided and in some cases frought with injustice and corruption does not make the foundation wrong, it makes the individuals perpetrating the injustice and corruption wrong.
The ghosts of the Sand Creek Massacre are still among us--if you think not, read "Beyond the Sangres," by Wes Brewer

I haven't denigrated anyone . . Facts are Facts . . if you choose to refute them, do it with something besides a book with a single point of view . . History's done and gone, but those of you who continue to harp about the "Injustices of History" may find yourselves owing for things your European Forefathers did to the Neanderthal . . after all we don't know, FOR SURE, if there aren't still a few around, 'specially after going to a AC/DC Concert!

That being said, the only way you are going to make equal reparation is to give it all back to 'em and leave . . And that, my friend ain't the idea . . that'd be like the Israelis leaving Israel and giving it back to the Palestinians . . In 20 years it'd all be desert again and the poor bast**ds would be starving to death . . no goats in Israel, no buffalo here . . .

Currently, the Indian (or Native American, if you choose) has a choice, live and work like the white man, as a great number do, or stay on the reservation . . and complain about how tough life is . . of course, they don't have to work, and they get money, a place to live (which, as often as not, they destroy) and a place to graze their livestock (if they have any) . . there's no jobs on reservations for the most part, because no one will put a business there because they can't own property there . . certain amount of wisdom, because the American Law doesn't function there . . and for the most part, Indians who live on the Reservations don't honor the White Man's clock or calendar, so chances are, if you employ a reservation dweller, he may . . or may not show up tomorrow morning, depending on . . actually, nothing.

This is currently called . . "Failing to Assimulate" . . .

AND . . This is not to say I'm a racist or particularily Anti-Native American . . My Grandfather on my Mother's side was one quarter Oklahoma Cherokee . . my Father's Great, Great Grandfather was an eighth Georgia Cherokee, so with that information I might qualify as a Native American . . but instead, I'm a REALIST first, and all those other things second . . . . or third . . or whatever

[Zombiewire]

Pueblo Poker Casino


get your free listing at www.pueblohometech.com

[Digger Dan]

Large wrote: "I haven't denigrated anyone . . Facts are Facts . . if you choose to refute them, do it with something besides a book with a single point of view . . History's done and gone, but those of you who continue to harp about the "Injustices of History" may find yourselves owing for things your European Forefathers did to the Neanderthal . . after all we don't know, FOR SURE, if there aren't still a few around, 'specially after going to a AC/DC Concert!"

Come now Large--it appears your facts are a single point of view--yours. Have you read "Beyond the Sangres." If not I suggest your read it so you so you can "factually" determine whether it is a "single point of view."

What has your ancestry got to do with anything other than your ancestry? I know you don't mean it this way, but it sounds like one is saying, I'm not prejudiced 'cause 'my best friend is________________.

It would be great if history was done and gone--but it isn't , it continually comes back like a time warp, to haunt those who didn't learn from it. I guess we all have choices, some prefer Fords concept that history is bunk. On the other hand most of us see history through our own prejudices.

Isn't a realist one acts upon history in such a way so as to protect the future. We all know the story of Echo and Narcissus. Unfortunately for most us, including myself, the mirror is our reality.

Isn't helping the widow or a child orphaned by a murderer the right thing to do--isn't it a form of reparation?

On the other hand we know what happens when the government starts dealing the hand--is suspect they make Las Vagas look pretty puny when it comes to gambling and reparations. Makes you wonder where the greatest gamblers really are.

[imabeetch]

I'm against it.

Some good reasons were mentioned, but if they don't have to follow any state or federal laws, then we're asking for trouble, and no financial incentive is worth that.

As well, our riverwalk is a pretty family oriented place. Casinos are not conducive to family orientation.

If they have to have one, why not put it where they wanted to put the WalMart distribution center? or waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out west....somewhere...over some rainbow...somewheres...where bluebirds fly and drop stuff on 'em...

[large]

Dan, I've read "your" book . . as I have many others . . and reading is an excellent source of information and education, so is travel . . and when compiling all the things one reads and sees, it tends to give one a point of view . . . which I have provided . . as far as my heritage, I included that because that's how it is . . you may take it for whatever it's worth . .

And for the Native Americans who proposed the Casino? As I said, this city owes them nothing . . and apparently the Senate and The Department of Interior feel the same way, as they have shown previously . .

A Casino and Hotel, by itself, promises nothing to the community other than a "Potential" tax source, which the County Commissioners immediately jumped upon as "Free Money" . . ain't no such thing! And the County Commissioners shouldn't have anything to say about it anyway . . it's inside the city, adjoining city property fully on the south side, and the HARP on the North. and as I've said previously . . their promise of money V. what they have shown in other states after the fact leaves me on the negative . . sorry . . . The Indian has shown that he can speak as didhonestly as anyone else . . and in the end . . this is all about money! No honor involved!

[large]

Ok, lessee what th' Council aired out . . .

Jobs . . average $30K a year with 100% Health benefits . . .

Infrastructure . . Pueblo City . . Police, FD, utilities . . . But the cops can't arrest an Indian . .

Shopping . . they're bringing their own . . .

Sharing . . the tribe gets the first $2, then everybody else gets the next dollar . . . or actually gets to split the next dollar!

Architecture . . lots of pics of the GV in Henderson, NV, but I don't think they can build in the same amount of cl**** the way they were talking . . . Sq. footage and all . . .

Pueblo City Council will work out an IGA . . Hmmmm, Colo Springs got in our shorts bad on the last one the Pueblo City Council negotiated . . think they can do any better the second time around?

Apparently I still don't have enough information . . .

[Zombiewire]

Check out this Pueblo Casino web site. LOL


http://pueblocoloradocasino.com/

look and see who sponsored it. heheheheheheh

[large]

Here's some things that have crossed my mind since listening to these people last night . . .

They presented first, a view of their "Destitute Tribe", needing far more than the government gives them . . Now there's supposed to be only 11,000 of them on the reservation . . and they claim that the Casino's estimated $20 million a year will help "get them by" . . . I'd guess so! And that's coupled with the fact that they already have two Casinos in Oklahoma . . even if those two are doing poorly and only bringing in $10 mil a year, these people are bringing in a LOT OF MONEY! $40 Mil a year is big money, even if it's split among 11,000 people! and apparently they don't intend to do that . . when asked where the money would go, it seemed to be kind of a doublespeak answer, ending with a question . . . Read either the transcripts or where Thurston was quizzing the presenters . . I think that's where it was . . But what they do with the money actually isn't any of my business, other than I felt the question was hedged on severely . . My impression . . they're not being transparent now . . how's things gonna get when they start divvying up the Money?

Again, on the transparency issue . . no mention was made of the "Homecoming Project" in Northern Colorado and their reasons for the lack of success there . . nor did they speak of why the Congress failed to allow that project.

On the "Jobs" question . . . they're gonna pay the Housekeepers, Bus Boys, Waiters, Clerks and Janitors $30k a year? With Bennies? . . I'll be the first in that line! And Seven Hundred Employees? I can't Imagine where they'd put 'em all! Especially if they only plan a 7,000 sq ft Casino, and if they stay within the Colorado Gaming Commission's ruleset, they'll have only "Limited Stakes" Gambling so someplace here there's some missing figures . . or some bad information!

TAXES, hmmmm, they called it a "Donation" . . and the Council's ears perked up . . first thing said, or asked, was; "Mr Galli, does that money fall under the TABOR restrictions?", to which the reply was; "NO" . . the whole Council flushed similtaneously . . BUT, if there's no tax or agreed percentage based on gross revenue, then they may just decide that the "Donation" can be Voluntary! And they may decide they don't have to "Donate" as time goes by . . . and while the shops on the Casino property will collect the sales tax due within the city limits, is this going to do anything for the rest of Pueblo? that could be in the end, just enough to pay for the Infrastructure costs of having the Casino here . . Again, I need to see some REAL figures . . . like I said, the idea of "Free Money" always gets the politician in heat!

Architecturally speaking . . they compared their concept to the Green Valley Hotel and Casino complex in Henderson, NV . . . BUT there was no presentation other than a poorly drawn "concept" that looked like a school stage set . . In my past, I've made Preliminary architectural presentations as well as preparing them for the principal architects . .and Never have I (or we) made such an ameturish presentation of "How it would look" . . . They tell us that they are going to spend $100 million dollars on this and yet won't spend more than a couple of hundred to give us an idea of what they intend to do to one of the city's "Jewels" . . .

Personally, I'd be interested in seeing one of their other Casinos . . I'd bet that that would show us more than all the talk up to this point! Also a quick count of the Indian Casinos in Oklahoma . . 52 . . guess they might just want to come to Pueblo because the competition is wayyy to stiff in Oklahoma!

[Hell To Pay]

BUSINESS SUMMARY (From Yahoo)
Station Casinos, Inc., a gaming and entertainment company, engages in the ownership and operation of hotel/casino properties in the Las Vegas metropolitan area. The company owns and operates Palace Station Hotel & Casino, Boulder Station Hotel & Casino, Texas Station Gambling Hall & Hotel, Sunset Station Hotel & Casino, Santa Fe Station Hotel & Casino, Fiesta Rancho Casino Hotel, Fiesta Henderson Casino Hotel, Wild Wild West Gambling Hall & Hotel, Wildfire Casino, Magic Star Casino, and Gold Rush Casino. It also owns a 50% interest in Green Valley Ranch Station Casino and Barley’s Casino & Brewing Company. In addition, the company manages Thunder Valley (Indian) Casino (http://www.thundervalleyresort.com/resort.aspx) in Sacramento, California.

The Green Valley Ranch is one of the nicest of the Station Casinos, and (as a longtime stockholder ;)) I've been in all of them, including the indian casino Thunder Valley. There is no way the proposed casino would even be as nice as Thunder Valley or the Santa Fe Station, although 5 square acres of casino space would be an eventuality if profits are substantial enough because of a much more liberal gaming enviornment. The devolopers would buy the surrounding properties for non gaming purposes, like parking and hotel.

That being said, The Slimy Scum on City Council would ruin the Adult Themed Entertainment enviornment with their corrupt "laws." to the detriment of YOU, the Puebloan.

With talk already of following the casino customer rip off Cripple Creek and Blackhawk gaming policies, the stupid Puebloans (their main customer base) will lose their money in even greater quantities due to Idiot City Council promoted uncompetitive gaming rules.

And as the wise Idiots on City Council have already determined, the gambling tourists just flock to indian casinos with substance prohibitions.

Since the locals can't seem to do it, the Indians should tell Pueblo's government to F--k off.

The majority of Puebloans are too sheep-like stupid to have anything nice here.

[large]

Contrary to popular belief . . I'm not necessarilly anti-casino . . just where and what . . . and I'm a skeptic . . or a cynic, depending on how the presentation is made . .

First, the location bothers me . . while HARP is not at the present (or probably forever) self supporting, a casino that looks like the presentation piece scares hell out of me . . The HARP Riverwalk is the "Town Jewel" if you will, and if there's going to be something built that costs a Hundred Million dollars, it ought to be architecturally compatable with it's front yard! One would think! And that being the case, a little design time might've been in order! Didn't happen!

What DID happen was this . . A couple of White promoters (Lawyers, probably) and a couple of stage props . . (where is Chief George when you need him?) came in and waved a bunch of money (Maybe) in front of a bunch of local politicians . . . They saw "Free money' and not much else! They're for it, for all practical purposes, without any more study . .

I prefer to think there needs to be a lot more information provided, some concept and design work, and I want to see actually what these tribesmen have done with the $60-100 Million (quick-math) dollars they have already earned from settlements and their other two Casinos . . in fact, I'd like to see the other two casinos after a few years of wear and tear . . . Just as a "Benchmark" . . . .

[DMad]

I think one question that needs to be answered is "Will a casino on the HARP bring the kind of future business and downtown expansion that Pueblo really wants?". It would seem to me that by building a casino on the riverwalk, expansion and development in that area is going to point in a direction different than if the time was given for a slower and more natural development. Well there be the family attractions in place with a casino/hotel ruling the block, the quiet areas where families, couples and/or seniors gather to enjoy the area in solitude? Is that even what Pueblo sees as the vision for the HARP? My one big question with this project is do we know that a hotel/casino will put us in the RIGHT development direction for Pueblo's downtown, or are we simply falling to the easy money being shown without engaging in a full community discussion, not simply about the pros and cons of the casino itself, but of the future and vision of the HARP?

[Zombiewire]

Here's the deal, Pueblo will close 50 dive bars in town. You know the ones. The city will plan to turn their new casino tax money to clean up those streets. Focus on making Lake Avenue and other bar streets attractive again.
The casino opposition should use their power to demand other changes to the city to balance the impact of the casino and the treat of crime.

If you get rid of 50 bars in exchange for the casino then you have a balance. but hey that's just me..........


voye>>>> http://www.pueblocoloradocasino.com

[large]

Hmmmm, probably not . . . Dunno what criteria, exactly, one would use to define "Dive" Bars . . The social strata of it's clients? Whether it had smelly bathrooms? Less than X amount of square feet? Lack of large neaon sign?

Again, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder . . and how would the city go about that without starting a lawsuit longer than when Nero sued the Fiddler's Union?

You can't just "Legislate" someone out of business, and of course if you chose to just "Buy" 'em out, well, yeah, first if you pay 'em what they would ask to "Go out of Business" then the city would be broke by the first 25 . . And even if they managed to buy all 50, it would appear that opening up a "Dive" would be more profitble than operating it . . Unless you used "Right of Eminent Domain" . . God forbid!

Besides, they might be the most prosperous businesses after the indians put in a "No Liquor" Casino (Most of them are) . . after all when you lose yer shirt and scalp to a red Man, you gotta have a drink!

[Zombiewire]

Oh yeah you gotta have a cold one. I guess that why I am a Fence builder and not a city manager. James

http://www.pueblocoloradocasino.com



Hmmmm, probably not . . . Dunno what criteria, exactly, one would use to define "Dive" Bars . . The social strata of it's clients? Whether it had smelly bathrooms? Less than X amount of square feet? Lack of large neaon sign?

Again, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder . . and how would the city go about that without starting a lawsuit longer than when Nero sued the Fiddler's Union?

You can't just "Legislate" someone out of business, and of course if you chose to just "Buy" 'em out, well, yeah, first if you pay 'em what they would ask to "Go out of Business" then the city would be broke by the first 25 . . And even if they managed to buy all 50, it would appear that opening up a "Dive" would be more profitble than operating it . . Unless you used "Right of Eminent Domain" . . God forbid!

Besides, they might be the most prosperous businesses after the indians put in a "No Liquor" Casino (Most of them are) . . after all when you lose yer shirt and scalp to a red Man, you gotta have a drink!

[large]

Actually, I don't think there's been ANY answers yet . . the presentation to the Council really didn't tell us anything . .

There wasn't really an Architectural presentation, which, certainly would've had were it me making a pitch to a whole city, and planning to use their "Town Jewel" that they had planned and built, for your front yaed . . .

There wasn't much of a fiscal presentation, just potentials and a promise of when we get some money, You'll get a little . . But we're gonna have people shop here, watch movies here, and lose their money here . . leaves a lot for the Pueblo Merchants to look forward to . . . But it's your infrastructure that'll help them get by . . . . .

There was a plea to help the poor disenfranchised tribesmen of the Arapaho/Cheyenne Tribe, all 11,000 of the poor souls, who, apparently after a 15 million dollar settlement in 1961, built two casinos in Oklahoma and have been barely getting by on 15/20 million dollars a year since . . and are still disenfranchised and all that . . . I just have a feeling that the whole truth hasn't been told here . .

[kookie44]

This is new to me and I hope I have done it right.
As for the casino, I heartily agree that the casino could be a plus for our community. In fact, I am so tired of hearing about the CAPP group that even if I were against the casino I would have to re-think my position.
I feel that the casino is just the thing that will jump-start the HARP project and Union Avenue. I am so tired of hearing the negative side of the issue that I have written my point of view to "Tell It To The Chieftain" and it appeared yesterday (Sept. 18, 2005). I have also started getting signatures on a petition in favor of the casino and its location. It's not surprising how many Pueblo residents are in favor of the casino as we need something to help our economy. I am in need of people who will help me get more signatures as I don't have the funds from outside the community like others have to do this myself. Anyone wanting to help with this is welcome to call me. My number is in the phone book. Let's give Pueblo a shot in the arm and get our economy out of the red.
Should anyone want to learn more about Council Tree Communications they can visit their website as I did.

[Zombiewire]

Well if you have more content and need my help using www.pueblocoloradocasino.com
Let me know. I can insert what ever content you need. I can promote your group.
I agree with you. At first I was opposed too the casino then thought, Pueblo needs a shot in the arm.
One lady had said that she did not want her child to be raised around a casino. That lady needs to take a look a certain bars in Pueblo and bark about that first.
With a casino the streets will still be clean. There will be more cops(more employment) More power being used, more money in the local banks, more sales. More opportunity for everyone who has an business ambition to start their business plans.
When opportunity knocks you must open the door.









This is new to me and I hope I have done it right.
As for the casino, I heartily agree that the casino could be a plus for our community. In fact, I am so tired of hearing about the CAPP group that even if I were against the casino I would have to re-think my position.
I feel that the casino is just the thing that will jump-start the HARP project and Union Avenue. I am so tired of hearing the negative side of the issue that I have written my point of view to "Tell It To The Chieftain" and it appeared yesterday (Sept. 18, 2005). I have also started getting signatures on a petition in favor of the casino and its location. It's not surprising how many Pueblo residents are in favor of the casino as we need something to help our economy. I am in need of people who will help me get more signatures as I don't have the funds from outside the community like others have to do this myself. Anyone wanting to help with this is welcome to call me. My number is in the phone book. Let's give Pueblo a shot in the arm and get our economy out of the red.
Should anyone want to learn more about Council Tree Communications they can visit their website as I did.

[kookie44]

I personally feel that the casino is a very good idea for Pueblo. I have stated my views in the "Tell It To the Chieftain" section of the Sunday Sept. 18, 2005 issue of the newspaper.
We are one of the lowest income per capita cities in the state and the unemployment rate is disgusting. The welfare roles are being stressed to the limit and families are deeply in debt just from everyday expenses. The day of a prospering Pueblo are in the past but not an irreversible situation. We no longer have the steel mill, the PAD or the Colorado State Hospital to employ the majority of the population. We are stagnating and we need some major changes in the economy. We have let many business opportunities go by us and go on to other communities and therefore letting potential employment opportunities go by the way. Are we going to let yet another 900-1000 jobs go somewhere else? Are we going to become a community that large employers shun because we have the earned reputation of turning away possible business ventures? Why should we not have the opportunity to at least try to better our community?
The Riverwalk is a wonderful addition to Pueblo but it is not a drawing card for tourism. People will not come to Pueblo to see the Riverwalk but they will come to Pueblo of gamble and therefore will probably enjoy our Riverwalk and the Union Avenue District. It would be a drawing card for the Convention Center as there will be more entertainment for the conventioneers. I feel that the ONE casino would help our community to thrive.
I have heard that many people are against the casino because the Riverwalk is a family oriented facility and they don't want children to be subjected to "drunks" coming out of the casino at the Riverwalk. I have been to many Native American run casinos and most of them don't even serve liquor. Besides which any liquor license issued in Pueblo County must be approved.
I have started a petition in favor of the casino because the only voices being heard by our City Councilmen are the nay-sayers. If anyone is interested in helping to circulate this petition please feel free to contact me.

[kookie44]

I fully agree with Declyn. I don't appreciate being told what I can do with my personal life as though I am a 5 year old. If we heard more from the supporters it would really be nice. The nay-sayers are the most vocal and now it seems they are going to have the radicals from 35 miles to the north do their persuading through guilt. It just makes me more adamently in favor of the casino. Anyway, who gives them the right to speak for me and my family. My mother is almost 80 years old and rarely is able to get to Cripple Creek for a day of relaxation. When she does, she thoroghly enjoys herself and you can see the stress removed if only for a while. I think it has a very calming effect on her and I am thankful for that. Win or lose she is happy and relaxed if only for a few hours!

[large]

Hmmm, a twinkie post . . are you running for office ?

Can you factually answer the questions that I asked in the post above your first one . ?

Or the first one I posted dealing with Council Tree's presentation to the City Council ?

Having been a planner employed by the Pueblo County Council of Governments at one time and having been involved with more than one of Pueblo's "attractions" I need to see answers to those questions before I would back any kind of enterprise that we will have no legal recourse over . . .

As far as the jobs go . . Council Tree stated to the City Council that there COULD BE as many as 750 jobs . . now they're saying a thousand . . Hmmmm? They haven't told us that it's going to be bigger, have they? And where is the "Track record"? I'd like to see photos of the Current tribe Owned Casinos. I'd also like to see all those $30k per yr bus boys, clerks and housekeepers that they have in their current casinos . . .

And is it going to be Limited Stakes or wide open? Will liquor be sold? What kind of Shops will they have? Will they be the same as the Union Avenue and current Downtown Merchants have? A Movie theatre, will it be able to compete with The Big One on the north side?

You see, those are the ponderences of an old guy that's seen promises made and not kept . . . by both Politicians and Lawyers . . and now by a tribe of Indians who view a finished and signed settlement as "Not complete" because they've decided they want more . . .

My feeling is this . . until these people, Council Tree and the Southern Arapaho/Cheyenne put forth a binding presentation of their Intent, we need not think of what or how it'll affect our community . . because without answers it shouldn't be considered, either way!

Don't be so quick to grasp at "Lotto Tickets" . .the last deal we lost had ALL the answers and a very small number of people (less than 50 actually) defeated it . . don't let a guilt trip hamstring you for 20 years of the community's life!

[kookie44]

Hmmm, a twinkie post . . are you running for office ?

Can you factually answer the questions that I asked in the post above your first one . ?

Or the first one I posted dealing with Council Tree's presentation to the City Council ?

Having been a planner employed by the Pueblo County Council of Governments at one time and having been involved with more than one of Pueblo's "attractions" I need to see answers to those questions before I would back any kind of enterprise that we will have no legal recourse over . . .

As far as the jobs go . . Council Tree stated to the City Council that there COULD BE as many as 750 jobs . . now they're saying a thousand . . Hmmmm? They haven't told us that it's going to be bigger, have they? And where is the "Track record"? I'd like to see photos of the Current tribe Owned Casinos. I'd also like to see all those $30k per yr bus boys, clerks and housekeepers that they have in their current casinos . . .

And is it going to be Limited Stakes or wide open? Will liquor be sold? What kind of Shops will they have? Will they be the same as the Union Avenue and current Downtown Merchants have? A Movie theatre, will it be able to compete with The Big One on the north side?

You see, those are the ponderences of an old guy that's seen promises made and not kept . . . by both Politicians and Lawyers . . and now by a tribe of Indians who view a finished and signed settlement as "Not complete" because they've decided they want more . . .

My feeling is this . . until these people, Council Tree and the Southern Arapaho/Cheyenne put forth a binding presentation of their Intent, we need not think of what or how it'll affect our community . . because without answers it shouldn't be considered, either way!

Don't be so quick to grasp at "Lotto Tickets" . .the last deal we lost had ALL the answers and a very small number of people (less than 50 actually) defeated it . . don't let a guilt trip hamstring you for 20 years of the community's life!
NO, I'm not running for office.
NO, I don't have all the answers but I don't have a closed mind.
NO, I don't appreciate being called names or having others called names just because they don't agree with you.
NO, I don't really care what you think because believe it or not I do have a mind of my own.
NO, I don't believe the deal we chose to give up had ALL the answers.
NO, I don't think that most of Pueblo is stupid but there are some who imply that we are not educated enough to make a decision. Those people are the ones that I chose not to listen too!

[large]

I don't think I called you a name, a "Twinkie", meaning (In my language) a twin or dual post, and actually I didn't really refer to you at all, with the exception of asking if you were running for Office, again, regarding the redundancy of your posts . . .

I AM ASKING QUESTIONS THAT NO ONE CAN SEEM TO ANSWER, EITHER THOSE FOR OR AGAINST.

If you would Buy property based on the information given (or not given, as the case may be) then I have a deal for you!

You would refer to me as "close minded" . .Don't think so, but my eyes are wide open . . and I'm waiting for that handfull of vaseline . . . Idle talk does not build edifices . . .

And grow some skin, because you seem to have a very bad case of "Thinskinitis" . . .

And where was your little voice when we needed it for the Wal Mart Distributorship ?

As far as education, I don't doubt you have one . . just not a good one apparently, because, you have not answered a single important question that was asked . . so either you didn't read them, or could'nt . . .

Can you tell me or provide the links to the Southern Arapaho/Cheyenne Casinos in Oklahoma or wherever they might be? Clinton, Okla. is the obvious answer, but it isn't . . Can you show me the wages that the bus boys and waitresses are making in their presaent casinos, wherever they might be? CAN YOU ACTUALLY SHOW ME FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT ANYTHING THAT WAS SAID AT THE CITY COUNCIL PRESENTATION IS TRUE?

I have stated in this thread, in other posts what I have found to be true . . It is only negative because of the lack of facts presented. That can change with further detail . . which, Just as your last post, hasn't been very forthcoming!

[juswde]

I cant answer all of those questions. And i do think the nay sayers have some very good points. But i got to tell you. If this casino could bring in as many jobs as they say they can. And pay the $12 and hour and up with full benifits they are talking about. I would vote for it in a second and i am all for it. It is very hard to get a good job in Pueblo. I have a family to rasie and my $8.50 and hour just aint cutting it.

[Hell To Pay]

NO, I don't think that most of Pueblo is stupid but there are some who imply that we are not educated enough to make a decision. Those people are the ones that I chose not to listen too!

You're not listening is simply being ignorant.

This City has stupidly elected demoncrats to every office since before i was born. Look at the bad economic decisions made by them repeatedly, decade after decade. Do you think the electorate is going to wise up? No!

It is a bad economic decision to drive away 50% of your potential tourist base by enforcing smoke free gambling.

It is a bad economic decision to drive away saavy gambler tourists by agreeing to abide by limited stakes gambling. Limited stakes decrease your odds of winning on table games.

Do you really think the people of Pueblo are intelligent enough to demand that these restrictions be waived?

Any casino Pueblo lands will be a piece of crap, and you deserve it for being ignorant.

[large]

So with one small answer, we now have many more Questions . . In the Wednesday Chieftain, Gayle Perez wrote a group of articles dealing with a Cheyenne Chief and his stories or histories of the Cheyenne and where he says they are today . . .

An answer . . actually one that wasn't asked, is that they (the tribe) own THREE casinos and a Tobacco Outlet . . .

BUT, there were at least two references to the continuing poverty and dysfunctional problems the 11,000 plus members were experiencing currently, with no improvements in sight unless they get this Casino in Colorado . . . .

Now, based upon the statements made during the presentation to City Council, they stated that based upon prior experience that a casino such as the one planned in Pueblo would Net aproximately $20 million a year for the tribe . . as the current Casinos netted about $10 million a year each . . . this was their "Average" . . . according to the Spokesman from Council Tree . . .

Y'just gotta ask . . Where in the Hell did all that money go?

An observation here also . . There continues to be what I call a "Sympathy Sell" coming from our Native American friends . . They continue to belabour the fact that the treaties that weren't observed, need to be . . thus giving them back large tracts of developed land areas so that they may wander around it, looking for the Buffalo that aren't there anymore . . Were I to speak longingly of wanting my youth back, to the point of it sounded like an unreal obsession, I would be encouraged to "Seek Help" . . .

The American Indian, like the rest of us, must realize . . It's "NOW" and history can't be reversed . . ain't Possible . . Down through history, as evolution occurred, you had to adapt or die . . And they need to assimulate, they cannot continue to be the Federal Government's welfare cases forever, just because they don't want to do what the white man does . . WORK everyday . . .

[DMad]

I have to say I agree with Large and at the same time I favor the "idea" of a casino here in Pueblo.

Let's face it, the economic situation in Pueblo could be far better. Unemployment is terribly high in comparison to the state and the rest of the nation, while welfare among Pueblo citizens seems more common than it should be. The "idea" of not only bringing in approximately 750 jobs that would pay in the $12/hr range plus benefits, but also jump starting the economic infrastructure that would eventually support a hotel and casino in this city, is exciting to me!

However, the answers to the questions that are being asked within this thread are too important to allow ourselves to cast them aside. I can tell the city of Pueblo that I can spin wheat into gold, but until I can provide concrete proof, the notion still remains an "idea". I find it completely fair that those responsible for promoting the building of this hotel/casino should be held accountable for the facts and figures they are presenting to the citizens of Pueblo, the "idea". I would find it odd that they would blatantly distort and fabricate the information that they have presented so far, UNLESS they believed the population would eat what they were being fed without asking what it's made of. And I would be disappointed in our citizens if we made a decision as complex and important as this on nothing more than the promises and "good word" of a small few. So either there are facts to back up the statistics, or we are getting played for the foolish. I think the longer these questions go unanswered, the more likely I question what's being proposed.

I personally hope we get the answers we are looking for and find everything promised to be true.

[large]

Good job . . .Objectivity, not emotion, should guide our decisions . . I'm a cynic, a product of old age and experience . . but there's no need to be that just because I am . . . Just investigate, ask for the facts, and approach it with a positive outlook until it's proven to be different. Just don't preach the gospel until you know it's "Gospel" . . heh, heh . . .

Remember, This is OUR town . . and we must do the best for it we can, so ask lots of questions, demand answers . . . expect nothing for free . . .

[Chuckie]

I agree with Large that those questions need to be answered. It only adds weight to my own routt to an opinion on this subject. Which is if city council is for it then I'm against it.

Those clowns on the city council haven't come up with a good idea yet. In fact, their ideas are usually pretty bad. If you need a list of their stupid ideas here ya go...



Make it illegal to participate in a LEGAL activity on private property.

Try to buy out the trash companies to raise rates in order to please the enviro people. All that would have done is cause more dumping in the prarrie.

Try to play games with Walmart and lose 750-1000 potential jobs for the area.

Plan to buy Aquila. By their own published figures it will take 35-38 years to pay for it. Just for comparison, put your money in a retirement investment that will take that long just to get you back what you spent. (what is it with them and government controlled utilities anyway?)



Most of that stuff is reflective of simple lazy thinking. If they would just think things through as Large suggests they wouldn't even consider these things. Now they want to bring in a casino without all the necessary facts.

The track record these guys have is pathetic. Who would trust them to make a wise decision concerning anything?

[Zen Curmudgeon]

The American Indian, like the rest of us, must realize . . It's "NOW" and history can't be reversed . . ain't Possible . . Down through history, as evolution occurred, you had to adapt or die . . And they need to assimulate, they cannot continue to be the Federal Government's welfare cases forever, just because they don't want to do what the white man does . . WORK everyday . . .
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/Kipling.html

Rudyard Kipling, The White Man's Burden, 1899

This famous poem, written by Britain's imperial poet, was a response to the American take over of the Phillipines after the Spanish-American War.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!

[Zombiewire]

Pueblo - Tired of feeling like they're being shut out of discussions on a $100 million American Indian casino plan, anti-casino activists are contemplating pushing the issue to a citywide vote.

“We're very concerned the citizens of Pueblo haven't had a voice in this,” said Alvin Rivera, vice president of the opposition group Citizen Action for a Prosperous and Healthy Pueblo.

The group met in Pueblo on Saturday to decide whether to move ahead with plans for a special election, although no announcement was made. They plan to hold a public meeting on the issue next month.

They would need about 1,780 registered voters to sign a petition asking for a special election under city rules, said Nick Gradisar, the group's attorney.

At the center of the fight is a proposal by the Cheyenne-Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma to build a casino on the city's tourist-oriented Arkansas Riverwalk. The most likely site is 5 acres directly across from the convention center. more on this story>
http://pueblocoloradocasino.com/index.php?ax=view&id=61

[Zombiewire]

WASHINGTON — Sen. Wayne Allard is hoping to stop an "end run" that could allow a gambling casino to be built in Pueblo.

Allard, R-Loveland, has written to the chairman of the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee, Sen. Thad Cochran, R-Miss., asking him to prevent language from being slipped into a pending appropriations bill to allow a proposed casino on land near the Historic Arkansas Riverwalk in Pueblo.

Council Tree Communications Inc. has proposed the casino for the Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes of Oklahoma, which are seeking the project in lieu of claims to 27 million acres of ancestral land in Colorado.

Allard fears developers will try to circumvent Department of Interior approval and avoid opposition from state officials, including Gov. Bill Owens, with language buried in a congressional spending bill.

"That kind of end run around a transparent process is unacceptable to me," Allard said in a release. Allard said he wrote to Cochran "to make sure that any such decisions be made in an open manner, with input from the people of our state." more Pueblo Casino News

http://pueblocoloradocasino.com/index.php?ax=view&id=80

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OK, what happened here?

The Arapaho/Cheyenne either didn't want to answer a lot of "Personal" questions . . or they have decided to go to "War" with the Guv'mint . . . Because the 5 acres didn't seem to be enough in the shake out . . . or the fact that some guarantees were being asked for . . . from the locals who were to be the literal "Hosts" for their enterprise . . .

Some of the City Council members were grumbling or so the paper reported, but didja ever think about asking any of them about the "Free Lunch Thing"? They apparently still live in the world of Fairy Tales . . And believe their own B.S.

The initial presentation by Steve Hillard and Council Tree stated that the Casino Complex would employ roughly 700-750 people . . . and perhaps after 5-7 years the number would climb to as many as a thousand . .

Instantly, the Council and the Advertising Agency "Somebody" hired was spouting "A Thousand Employees, all making "Union Wages" . . Really? . . Come on now!

The Council may grumble, but they never asked any questions that would have made anybody come to an informed decision about placing such an entity in our city . .

Based on the Rhetoric and the events . . I say good riddance . .

Lets get the Cement Plant built, and start getting our house in order . . lets look at "Taxpaying" businesses, longlasting businesses that won't come into the community or the airport at great expense to the taxpayer and then fold when the benefits paid to them expire . . and get rid of the NIMBY attitude that we're better than Wal Mart, or other corporate businesses . . Quit courting the High Tech "Suitcase" industries, who can move in overnight employ 50 people and then move out just as quick . .

Also, let's help the small businesses that are here in Pueblo . . I know of several Businesses who are on the "Edge" . . fighting to stay afloat, because they are paying taxes to help the city bring in competition, and give the competition tax advantages, Utility advantages, and other things that the old local guy has never gotten and won't be considered for . . . I know this for a fact . . as I have been one of them . . .

Matter of fact . . y'want an education? Open a small business in Pueblo . . You'll get one!

[Hell To Pay]

Since the locals can't seem to do it, the Indians should tell Pueblo's government to F--k off.



How embarrassing for the city, being rejected for a piece of crap casino. As I said before, the City Gov will be/was/is responsible for the rejection by over restricting the business.

[Zombiewire]

It was all a game they know to use to work water rights! They played it so well. I really liked the part when they bussed in the elders and worked that deal.

Now I am will take that offer and sell my www.pueblocoloradocasino.com site to some
www.OffShoreGambling Con

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Puelen sez . . . "It's up to the people who opposed the Casino to bring in the next business . . "

And then we have some quote from the tree huggers about air quality . .

Currently there's a Cement "Shortage" brought on by several "Fuzzy Factors" so says Holcium industries, in Portland , CO . . who happens to be the only cement supplier in the area . . and who has the area's Concrete Contractors and anybody else who depends upon Concrete for a living down to working either about one day in three or nothing at all . . .

The County Commissioners have done little or nothing to assist the placement and startup of the Mexican owned Cement Plant that has been on the drawing board for over 5 years in Pueblo County . . A large plant, not in danger of closing before the opening has taken place, a clean basic industy, held up because of a bunch (and a small bunch at that) of NIMBY's and Tree Huggers . .

Apparently the only way to get something done in Pueblo County is to either be the Boyfriend of a Commissioner or be a small, loud minority!

Ask the Wal Mart Folks!

[Hell To Pay]

John Klomp believes the tribes wanted even more control than the local governments were willing to offer. "I think they would have like to have had more sovereign power," he said Tuesday.

[hvymtlmechanic]

Then they shouldn't have ran a proposed Wal-Mart distribution center out of town.
Yes, Pueblo NEEDS a casino like I need a bad case of crabs.

[DMad]

Pueblo needs some source of economic stimulus, bottom line. It's true, I believe that we had no business running out a WalMart distribution center. Too many jobs for an area that needs jobs. But the fact of the matter is, it's done. The distribution center is gone, and so is the indian casino. So what now?

It seems as if Pueblo sees opportunity, then sees the critics, then sees nothing. I welcome the ideas of the naysayers. It's interesting that in all the instances I have had to listen to someone talk down an idea to bring jobs and/or economic development, I have yet to hear these people come with any solutions.

Please, by all means, poke holes in the situation, but to only come with the cons of an idea and not propose any of your own solutions seems non-productive.

[Hell To Pay]

Here's an idea for you, kick all the local democraps out on their ass. They are the ones who are really running these businesses out of town.