Guns & Children

[Lexi]

I am greatly saddened and angered upon reading about the death of a 9-year old girl at the hands of her 6-year old brother who found a loaded pistol under a dresser.

Although my heart goes out to this family, I must state that guns and children are not a safe mix.

I have read such stories for well over 20 years now. When I had my first child at the age of 23, I opted to get rid of my firearm because I didn't want any "accidents" to happen. I never did need it anyway, and I haven't bothered owning one since.

I am not against the right to bear arms, but I am against stupidity and carelessness when it comes to owning any kind of a weapon. I have heard the same phrase over and over, "Teach your children to respect the gun and they won't get into it."

BALONEY!!!

Children are always in "play" mode. They see something, they want to explore it and play with it. They see guns being used in the movies, and perhaps may be a little desensitized to the dangers of guns in that they don't understand the finality of death until it happens close to home, or in theirs.

If parents are going to own a firearm, they MUST keep it locked away (and unloaded!) from the children's reach. The youngest child I've read about having played with a gun and killed his little friend was about a year and a half old. His friend was 2. Don't think that your pistol is "too heavy" for them to lift, or that just because the safety is on it's safe. It doesn't work that way. Even a trigger lock with a key can be faulty.

If you think you need to have your loaded pistol next to you in the night, then take responsibility to not leave it there when your children wake up. I, personally, think it's too high of a risk, it's too easy to absent mindedly forget to put the thing away.

Folks, what is the real reason why you need to keep a gun in the house? Do you really think you're going to need it? Have you needed it yet? Is it worth the loss of your children's lives to keep one? Don't ever think that "it" won't ever happen to you.

I read a story in the paper once about a man who killed his 14 year old daughter in the night with a gun because she got up to go to the bathroom and he thought she was a burglar.

It's a heartbreaking issue. It's been going on for years, and has been written about over and over again. Why is it still happening? Why haven't we learned yet?

Is there anything that we, as a community, can do to encourage gun safety around children? We already have laws in place about storing our firearms within reach of children, but that's just not enough, is it? What's it going to take? I'm against banning firearms altogether, by the way.

[Lexi]

By the way, I'd like to clarify that I'm not trying to kick this family while they are down. Their loss is tragic and these folks need all the love and community support they can get right now.

The purpose of my post is to encourage discussion and hope that others in the community will learn from this family's tragedy. This can happen to anyone, and I'd like for other families to learn from what this family is going through. Again, if there is any way that our community can draw together to encourage firearm safety with children, let us do so. (And I don't mean passing more laws, either.)

May the child rest in peace in the arms of Jesus. I pray for strength and forgiveness for this family, and for God's loving mercy, that this family will be able to go on with life and treasure the memories of their child. My deepest sympathies and sincerest regards to them along with hugs. I encourage them to draw close to God at this time and let Him be of comfort.

[large]

No Mix . . . IF you feel you need to have a gun for "Home Defense", the first thing you need to do is assume RESPONSIBILITY for that gun and the Bullets in it. Second you need to instill a healthy respect or fear of the weapon in your children . . Take the mystery away . . Show them the damage it will do, go "Kill" a watermelon with them as witnesses, a plastic gallon Milk Jug full of Soapy water, nother example . .

Once you've done that . . Lock it up . . or carry it. If you have it . . the kids don't!

As Lexi says, kids will play with a gun if they have access to one . . I grew up around them, and I learned early that any gun in my Dad's Household was loaded. He was a believer that a gun is absolutely worthless unless it was loaded with one in th' hole. And he was right!

Thus . . . You've gotta ask yerself . . "Do you feel Lucky today? Do I need this cannon where I can reach it just in case somebody kicks the front door in . . ? Or so my kids can play with it when the Wife and I are at Wal-Mart buying groceries?"

And most of you who have a "Cannon" for "Home Defense" don't really need it. Do You realize that when you put a round in the chamber that you are planning to KILL SOMEBODY? Because that's what you're going to have to do with it if it comes out! How many of you out there with loaded handguns in your house plan on Killing Someone . . ? Think about it . . . But that's the plan, and where it'll end up if you have to use it. No such thing as "I'll just scare or wound him" . . Unh uh, deadly force is just that, Sports Fans.

Secondly, think about what you are going to have to do with it if you have to use it. Tape a regular paper plate to the wall of your bedroom, at night, no moon, turn out the lights, shoot two holes in that plate, Bang, bang! Betcha ya missed the plate both times, the second by a mile because you can neither see nor hear after the first shot! And you have shot clear through the wall, probably through two or three rooms, hitting a myriad of things in those rooms . . . . You are no longer a protector but have become a danger to your family, the dog, and probably your surrounding neighbors. Not to mention your plumbing!

Thanks for listening!

[Lexi]

Good points, Large!

But I DO hope that NO one REALLY tries that paper plate thing! Especially if they live in a multi housing unit or apartment complex.

[Zombiewire]

just too sad

[Lexi]

By the way, I wonder how he managed to not hear a gun firing from his home. That music must have been pretty danged loud.

[large]

Very simple, m'dear . . Physics . . .

A .22 auto pistol makes a Popping sound at best, and if fired openly in a room, may make the ears of the shooter ring a little, but in all likelyhood wouldn't be heard outside the building. Even a 9mm or .45 ACP will make a hell of a noise in the room, probably deafen you for a while. But outside, it would probably sound like a board being hit with a hammer.

And considering that the two children were wrestling over it, it was probably a "Contact" wound. Thus, her clothing and the closeness of the two children muffled most of the muzzle blast and it probably couldn't have been heard in the next room.

I can't fully indight this poor man . . His carelessness with the gun wasn't total . . He had separated the clip from the pistol, rendering the gun non-functional . . and he stated and I have no reason to believe otherwise, "He forgot that it was even there" . . . .

Not to pick a bone, or start something, but haven't you ever left a couple of your kids to their own designs for a half hour or so? In another room, playing with each other, not thinking of all the hazards they may get into?

But children left to their own means don't just shoot each other. They set fires, lots of them . . In the Springs this year alone, I think there have been three house or apartment fires, causing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage, and the cause . . ? Children playing with fire. Nobody crucifies their parents. . . . or gives them jail time.

Kids get into stuff . . they're worse than a pet Raccoon . . As Parents, or Grandparents, we just gotta watch 'em as we will, and hope and pray we haven't left any Booby Traps in our home. My grandaughter (5 yrs) is in our home almost every weekend, and we are constantly on guard about that . . .

[xanthme]

Hi, on behalf of Julia's family I appreciate everything you have said and understand the importance of putting guns out of reach. I would also come to the fathers defense, he did forget the gun was there and is now living with his mistake, there is no moment when he does not blame himself fully for this terrible event. I have seen his eyes and know with all my heart that he really did not remember the gun being there. What we all need to focus on now is prevention of other children being hurt this way, the Pueblo Police sell gun locks for around ten dollars and I am asking anyone who cares to buy one to be donated in Julia's name to be given to those who cannot afford one themselves and I am sure if you want to get rid of any guns the police will be glad to take care of disposal too. Let's work together and make our town safer for the next generation. Thank you for letting me sound off. God Bless you all. Julia's auntie....

[large]

My condolences to your family . . xantheme . . especially to the father . .

[Lexi]

The family has my sympathies as well, but I can't help but wonder:

What was the reason why the father here did not have a gun lock? The police gave them away free, and the man did not participate in that program. Was there a reason for this? Maybe because he was't supposed to have a gun in the first place and he knew it and was trying to avoid getting into trouble?

Although I feel badly for this family, I have to say that had he acted responsibly in the first place, this would not have happened.

What do I mean by responsibly? He's a felon. He's not supposed to own a gun. Why did he have one? That he knew that shows his own disregard for the law, which, to me, is a bit on the irresponsible side. That he never got caught doing anything else to add to his record is beside the point.

And, again, why was there not a trigger lock placed on it? You can get those anywhere.

I'm sure he's kicking himself real hard right now. One thing is for sure, he'll never make that mistake again.

Let's hope that others learn from his mistakes so that they aren't repeated by others elsewhere.

I'm not writing all of this to kick the man while he's down, but my assertations here are directed at the public in general. I want others who possess firearms to ask themselves these same questions.

Is owning a gun so damned important to you that you're willing to risk the loss of your child(ren) so that you can own it?

If you're in and out of trouble with the law or hang out with "the tough guys", then you should not own a gun. If you're the type who can be forgetful, if you use street drugs or get drunk, you should NOT own a gun or have one in your possession.

And, for crying out loud, you should never be stupid enough to store it within a child's reach. EVER. I don't care if those children are in bed and you want to put it under your pillow on your bed. If a child can reach it while they're awake, whether you think theyre asleep in bed or know it's there, you DO NOT put it there.

[large]

And when God handed the Commandments to Moses, Moses noted the signature: LEXI






The rest is a well beaten horse, both here and on the other forum . . .

[Lexi]

Large,

Cut the personal attacks.

Aren't you the one who keeps saying, "let's keep it civil"?

Well, like your signature says, everybody dances different. I dance a hell of a lot different than you do, so go take your own advice.

[Zen Curmudgeon]

The family has my sympathies as well, but I can't help but wonder:

What was the reason why the father here did not have a gun lock? The police gave them away free, and the man did not participate in that program. Was there a reason for this? Maybe because he was't supposed to have a gun in the first place and he knew it and was trying to avoid getting into trouble?

To quote from the one posting based on firsthand knowledge, "I would also come to the fathers defense, he did forget the gun was there and is now living with his mistake, there is no moment when he does not blame himself fully for this terrible event. I have seen his eyes and know with all my heart that he really did not remember the gun being there."

And that's all any of us need to know. The rest is none of our business, really.

Take care -

ZC

[sweet_chin_music]

What was the reason why the father here did not have a gun lock? The police gave them away free, and the man did not participate in that program. Was there a reason for this? Maybe because he was't supposed to have a gun in the first place and he knew it and was trying to avoid getting into trouble?

Maybe it was because he *didn't* know about the gun lock program.

Believe it or not, not everything is announced in 72 point font on the front page of the Chieftain (unless of course, it's something tragic that will sell papers). As a gun owner myself, I didn't know until after this incident that the police were offering free gun locks. (Not that the program makes a difference to me since I always buy a gun lock when I buy a gun) It's one thing to have a program, but where was some PR showing this program before this incident? Even now, I bet less than 50% of the population knows anything about this program.

The thing that gripes me about your assertations is you seem to imply a gun lock would have solved the problem. While it would have went a long way towards preventing the problem, we could be sitting here discussing how he had a gun lock on that gun, stored in a locked container and the little girl still could have gotten his set of keys, unlocked the container, unlocked the gun and had the same exact result pan out. Don't believe me? Look at the little 7 year old boy who took his dad's keys, unlocked his dad's truck, put the key in the ignition and started the truck. He then drove it for over 25 minutes before he wrecked the truck. Where was dad when all of this happened? Taking a nap. Kids are capable of just about anything from the age 5 on. No amount of locks, child proof caps or hovering over kids will prevent accidents because at ont time or another, all of us will become distracted or complacent and kids will surprise us with their actions.

In the end, much like the Schiavo matter, this is a personal tragedy that really doesn't warrant any more media or public discussion and it certainly doesn't need any more speculation from people wishing to stir the pot. The poor father has to live with this the rest of his life and that will be hard enough.

[large]

In this morning's Chieftain, the NEW D.A. announced he will prosecute the father under the "Felon/firearms law" . . .

Wonderful . . . . . Twist that knife!

What, exactly does this A**hat D.A. intend to prove?

We know he can't put together enough of a case to convict a murderer, I'm betting even money, he ends up with "No-Convictions" on the other two also . .

So we'll just prosecute a poor guy that has no defense . . . gotta have a Conviction Record somehow . . . . .

[Zen Curmudgeon]

In this morning's Chieftain, the NEW D.A. announced he will prosecute the father under the "Felon/firearms law" . . .

Wonderful . . . . . Twist that knife!

What, exactly does this A**hat D.A. intend to prove?
Apparently Mr. Thiebaut wants to prove his unfamiliarity with "prosecutorial discretion". To quote Mr. Bill, "...unpleasant as it is, this office has no choice but to pursue this action. The district attorney's office is duty-bound to observe this law and not ignore it".

Uh huh. I'll remember that the next time a Pueblo PD car with no flashing lights or screaming sirens blows by me on I-25 just around shift change time.

Take care -

ZC