Do We Need To Change Our Immigration Laws?

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Weekly, almost daily at times, we hear about our immigration problems. Mostly concerning the Illegal Immigrants crossing our Southern Border with Mexico. There are arguments about what should be done, build a high fence, put Troops down there, and on, and on, and on . . But none of it works, because the people who come, mostly poor, uneducated and desperate, the people from Mexico are willing to risk incarceration, hardship, even death to come to America. To work . . . Not to become citizens, about that they don't care really. If citizenship were bestowed on them by a Politician looking for votes, so be it, but they don't come for that particularily. They come to work . . To make a living . . To send Yankee Dollars back to Mexico so that their poor families may share this "wealth". U.S. Census estimates that the Illegals from Mexico send back as much as 66 Billion Dollars a year in American Currency, every year!

You can see why President Vincente Fox doesn't want the American Government to change anything!

But we can! Lets just change the law so that there's no reason for an Illegal Alien to be here. Why not a law that would work similar to the OSHA laws in this country? A large percentage of the illegals working in this country are employed by the Meat Packing Industry, the Construction Industry, and numerous business' who employ sub-contractors to do a large part of their work for them. If OSHA can cite a General Contractor for a Concrete Finisher failing to wear safety glasses, the INS can cite the same General for that employee being an "Illegal" and as it would be with an OSHA citation, a $75000 per worker fine would be levied. Same with the homeowner who gets caught employing an Illegal to do the yard work, Bingo, $75000 Fine! Per worker!

I bet after the word got around that these fines were non negotiable, I'd be willing to bet a worker without certification couldn't get a job in this country doing ANYTHING! And they would almost immediately quit streaming across the border. You could take down the fences, take away the guards, open up the borders to trade. Just have the INS doing what it's supposed to do, keep track of the people who come to work here and whose papers expire or whatever, and catching the people who would hire Illegals.

Pretty simple really . . . .

[Lexi]

You raise some very good and valid points, but it's not as simple as "changing the immigration laws".

It's not the laziness in enforcing our existing immigration laws that's making people cross the border, it's all the other goodies that the US has to offer. And, it's not just the Mexicans taking advantage of it.

Rather than changing laws, we need to enforce our existing ones. I'm all for temporarily closing our borders to immigrants, and for every one that we have to deport, send the bill to their country. Once their country starts getting tired of having to pay the bill, they'll enforce a few laws of their own so they won't have to pay anymore.

I know people who bring their elderly relatives to the US, they become citizens without having to go through the exam because of their age. These folks have never contributed a thing...not one penny in tax dollars or anything...to the US, yet they come here, become naturalized, and live on disability and get medical benefits and free or reduced prescriptions.

If the US would stop allowing that BS, then there'd be more of those funds for natural born US Citizens, or naturalized citizens who've spent their lives here contributing to this country.

As well, they come to this country and get welfare, foodstamps, or other government aid that's not even available to natural born citizens.

We need to put a stop to this. How many other countries have such liberal financial aid for foreigners? I can't think of any.

I think that we're being used, and we're allowing it.

I could go on and on, but I won't...lol...I'm sure you get the picture, though.

I'm in favour of temporarily closing the borders to immigrants until the US is financially back on it's feet and our own citizens are taken care of FIRST.

[Amberthebrat]

Immigration Laws could definately stand to be looked at a bit closer, that's for sure ... but then again so do many other laws :lol:

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One of my previous jobs was a Project Manager for a road building contractor. Our paving crews consisted of Mexican Nationals, all of whom, I assumed at the time, had Green Cards. Each crew had a leader, one who spoke good english, talked the talk, you might say . . He and I, on several occasions had a chance to "Bat the Breeze", and I learned through our conversations, that he had no desire to become an American Citizen, as 90% of his income went home to Chihuaha to his family and his ranch. His kids went to private school, he owned three new Chevrolets, two pickups and a car, and ran about 500 head of cows. Pretty much the same for the rest of the crew. They didn't speak english, nor did they want to learn, why? They didn't intend to stay or assimulate.

However, a sub-Contractor I knew of who was in the Concrete Business would lose more than 75% of his crew every time the INS showed up on a job they were on . . the amazing part was . . They'd get raided by INS on a Wednesday afternoon, the INS would load all of 'em up and take off with 'em. By Tuesday of the next week, every one of them would be back on the job! The Bus that took 'em to Juarez hadn't even got back to Pueblo yet . .

Right now we are enforcing a "Catch and Release program" that costs a lot of money, ties up a lot of manpower and does absolutely no good.

The laws we have now can't be enforced practically. It's time to do something else.

[Lexi]

Like I said before, Large....closing the borders for a while might not be a bad idea.

If you look closely, we have some pretty stringent immigration laws as it is. They aren't being enforced.

That thing about the green card...that's an enforcement issue right there.

The other thing, too, though, is that you have groups building housing especially for illegals, which also encourages them to come over. Also, we have people employing them rather than citizens because they know they can pay illegals lower wages. This is also illegal.

I see your points, but unless we enforce our existing laws, why bother to make new ones? They won't be enforced either.

[sweet_chin_music]

I'm of the view that legal immigration is fine. Have the proper forms filled out and immigrate on a Visa.

However, illegal aliens must be stopped. Sadly, there isn't a simple answer to the problem. Even if workers/employees were caught and the laws enforced, both sides would be willing to take risks.

The area that concerns me more than workers coming into the United States and sending money back to Mexico is the fact that some of these people crossing are bad, bad dudes. Some are wanted for murder and rape in Mexico and they cross and live here among us. It's no secret that both borders are much too lax. Several terrorist cells have been caught streaming in from Canada and new worries place Mexico as the new crossing point for terrorists.

One solution that we discussed in class was creating a prison system much like the one seen on the shores of Guantanamo. Instead of spending the money to send the illegals back to Mexico over and over, create a system that keeps them for a period of 2-3 years then release them back into Mexico. In honesty, the program would cost about the same as what we spend sending aliens back over and over. While we have them in custody, we can find out if they are wanted in Mexico. If so, either send them back to Mexico or sentence them to the same sentence they would get if they committed the act in the US. If an illegal alien knew he was going to spend 2-3 years in prision if he was caught, it might cause them to re-think their choice.

An excellent book that discusses this problem is "Hard Line: Life and Death on the US-Mexico Border" by Ken Ellingwood. I'm not sure if it was mentioned in this book or another, but there is a story of an illegal alien that has been caught over 250 times. By the time travel fares, paperwork and man hours are spent, they figure he has cost the United States over $300,000.

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I don't think you quite understand. Here's how OSHA works . . . They do not send people out to your job and actively watch and inspect your job to have assurance of compliance. If there is an accident, rest assured you will deal with OSHA, and in all likelyhood be looking at an initial citation of over $100k. I won't go into the process farther, but rest assured, the cost of an OSHA citation is enough to make it VERY UNECONOMICAL to repeat the violation! Hence, if you wish to keep from becoming familiar with their Inspectors you will "Passively Comply".

That's the point with the change of Law I propose . . . Make it VERY UNECONOMICAL to get caught with Undocumented Aliens working for you or on your job site working for Sub-Contractors. If one fine costs more than you'd ever save in labor costs employing illegals, you'd look a little closer at who pours your concrete or cleans your pisser.

Just add this little clinging vine to the law . . $500 reward to anyone offering information about the employment of illegals. There's nobody in this country that would hire an Undocumented Alien if they were staring a $100,000 fine in the face. There's a Law you could enforce!

As for the illegals currently here . . Put that law in effect, Mexico will have to put up fences to keep them from going back! 99% of those people come here to work, not get on welfare. No work, they'll go back, as long as some politician doesn't decide to give them amnesty or instant citizenship so he'll get some votes.

[eatmordonuts®™]

It is a travesty that some bad people come over, along with some bad things, but in reality most of the people who come here are hard working people looking for an oppurtunity. Have OSHA fine the employers and contracters!!!! That is insane when you stop to think about the economic impact that would have! It is true they send alot of money back home, but who are these employers and contracters going to hire to do those jobs at that price, certainly not you or I, any american thats willing to work those jobs already are. We send the willing workers off and lock them on the other side of the border, then fine the employers....Are you willing to pay 20 bucks for a hamburger down at McDonalds? You think the cost of construction is high now? Americans wont cut meat for $10/hr (they only pay 8 here in Nebraska) If you think your top sirloin is expensive now, how much will it cost you when the packing plant has to pay $30 dollars an hour to a union employee who wont work any more than they have to. Things need to be different, we do need to change the welfare system to eliminate non citizens...but more than anything we need them here to work those jobs! For all our pocket books!

[Lexi]

[quote] but who are these employers and contracters going to hire to do those jobs at that price, certainly not you or I...[quote]

Precisely, but what they are doing is ILLEGAL. It is ILLEGAL to hire ILLEGALS.

any american thats willing to work those jobs already are.

That's a crock. I know plenty of Americans who are out of work because contractors are hiring illegals. Illegal Migrant Farm workers are always hired instead of American citizens. Why? Like you said, it's cheaper labour.

The same with some local contractors and builders.

Thing is, in the long run, it really DOES cost taxpayers more money, so it's not really "cheaper" after all. It costs the US, as a whole, quite a bit of money to go after the illegals, to prosecute their crimes, etc.

You mentioned that some of the immigrants here are sending money home...do you know why? It's so they can smuggle their families into the US. They use that money to fund their little "underground railroads". They then think that they can get their families into this country THEN go through the process of hiring a crooked attorney to "save" them from being deported. These folks eventually end up becoming citizens, EVEN THOUGH many of them have committed some serious crimes like rape or murder. I know a foreign family that routinely does this, and they aren't Mexican. They smuggle people in from china, put them to work in their chinese restaurant, and have them hide out in their garage. They live in the rafters....they've created a room in the rafters of their garage by placing boards that can be used as a floor. They use stacked crates to climb up there and that's where these illegals stay until they have some kind of documentation, which they get through their attorney.

If people want to come to the US and immigrate and be hard working citizens, then fine. LET THEM DO IT LEGALLY.

Right now the US is allowing too much abuse of the system by illegals and it's time to put a stop to it. I'm in favour of closing the borders for now until this matter is dealt with, because it's out of control.

I'm also in favour of recalling each and every one of our elected officials who are ignoring this matter and replacing them with more competant people.

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The other side of the coin as the continued series in the paper showed . . was the paperwork required to become a "Legal" immigrant (or worker) from Mexico (paperwork varies, depending on the country you're from, kind of Discriminatory) is somewhere between 7 to 15 years. Plus you must have proof of a job and other timley requirements, none that the average human could keep on line for that amount of time. Kind of a "Catch 22" deal.

When we adjust the laws making it "un-economic" to be caught employing "Illegals" we must streamline the process for both work permits and Immigrants . . . And that will take a lot more doing than adding fines to a law.

As for the Asians, the "Lawyer" thing happens because, as I said above, the laws are discriminatory. Different nationalities and ethnic groups are looked at differently by the Immigration people for a myriad of reasons, some making sense, I guess, some being pure Bureaucratic B.S. Again, this needs to be changed. This country is made up of immigrants, all of us, including the "Native American" are immigrants, it's just the Time Line that makes a difference. And we still need them, for many reasons.

Contact your Legislators, it's time for a change.